This explains a lot.

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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby 10up » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:01 pm

tufluk wrote:I just printed stats,


yeah.. it's not like you set up any context to associate those stats with in that completely non-racist post you made.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby tufluk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:20 am

I only set up the usual suspects for their usual tired, old, lazy way of debating.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby grodney » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:26 am

The amusing (and ironic?) thing is that a white pointy hood would fit quite nicely over the Don't Tread On Me snake.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby tufluk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:52 am

grodney wrote:The amusing (and ironic?) thing is that a white pointy hood would fit quite nicely over the Don't Tread On Me snake.


What I said. See previous post. (I only set up the usual suspects for their usual tired, old, lazy way of debating.) Which is to not debate. Really it gets a bit tiresome. Seems you guys may be lacking a bit of intellect.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby grodney » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:07 am

tufluk wrote:
grodney wrote: Seems you guys may be lacking a bit of intellect.


Says the guy that says the "usual tired, old, lazy way of debating" is "to not debate".

Well DUH. That should give you a hint: It's not debate.

You know, your usual tired, old, lazy way of dancing -- you know -- to just lie there -- to not dance. It's really tiresome.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby irban » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:31 pm

tufluk wrote:What I said. See previous post. (I only set up the usual suspects for their usual tired, old, lazy way of debating.) Which is to not debate. Really it gets a bit tiresome. Seems you guys may be lacking a bit of intellect.

Perhaps you can humor us a little and elaborate on what you think is the correlation between the ethnicity of a population, and the potential efficiency of it's health care system.
~~~- ¥
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby tufluk » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:44 am

I'm certainly not accepting the premise of your question.

A post is made. "Socialized medicine works in Switzerland and The Netherlands, it will work in the USA".

I reply, "the demographics of those 2 countries differ from those here." I posted stats.

I then state, "The Swiss govt. not only allows, but encourages personal firearms ownership. Yet they have a low gun violence rate while ours is high". Doesn't match.

I'm pretty sure irban is not encouraging us to adopt their gun policy. Why not? If it works there it should work here, right?

My question was, based on my stats, what reasoning would one use to think Switzerland's health policy will work here.

As usual, no reasoned reply, just "you're a racist".

My question would then be, "Why pick Switzerland and Netherlands? Why not Somalia? Sri Lanka? Cuba? Venezuela? North Korea?"

Was the selection of 2 homogenous European populations, as an example subconsciously racist to begin with? I wouldn't make that accusation. More likely it is the result of a lazy lib cherry picking stats, knowing they won't need to rebut. He will just cry racism, and all will be well.

That is the reason lib policies fail. They don't have to be well thought out, so they're not.

This has been fun, but I'm tired of those whose argument for every subject is, "I don't need to respond with reasoning because you are a bad person".

I leave you libs to your self-reinforcing circle jerk.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby Bugslayer » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:48 am

self reinforcing circle jerk?....this isn't Fox news! Tuf, you have been accused of being a racist on this site a few times, and each and every time I have had your back, I know you are not a racist, merely a republican (sometimes it's hard to tell the difference) but that post came across as pretty much racist, whether you meant it that way or not. The reason that Switzerland and Netherlands was used an example, we are alike economically, socially and politically. The only difference one could find IS the racial makeup....extremely weak argument, grasping at straws!

Why didn't they use Somalia....Sri Lanka....North Korea? Oh where to begin? in what way are we like ANY of those countries? we are not or haven't been in a recent civil war...or a dictatorship...or are we a third world country! According to your reasoning nothing any country accomplishes wouldn't work here, because no other country in the world has our racial make-up...in days gone by we proudly called ourselves the great melting pot. It was the melding of customs and ideas from the various different cultures that made us unique and made this experiment go!

Tuf you are not a racist!....but you get most of your news from people who are!
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby 10up » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 am

nope, he's just an idiot racist.

All nice points too though.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby irban » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:27 am

Replying to my post about the relative inefficiency of the health care system in the US, you provide this...

tufluk wrote:Here's a breakdown of Swiss demographics:
1. Ethnic divisions:
Total population:
German 65%
French 18%
Italian 10%
Romansh 1%
Other 6%
Swiss Nationals only:
German 74%
French 20%
Italian 4%
Romansh 1%
Other 1%

Netherlands:
Ethnic groups: Over 81,7% of the population are Dutch (Germanic and Gallo-Celtic stock), other 18,3% (of which 9% are non-western origin mainly Turks, Moroccans, Antilleans, Surinamese and Indonesians) (1999 est.)

That ain't the same as the good, old USA. "Nuff said!"


and this...

tufluk wrote:My point is that the use of select countries to showcase their success in solving a problem may not work elsewhere. Whatever you might say, America doesn't have a homogenous population. Many nations do.


as examples of why we're unlikely to attain the type of success that Sweden and the Netherlands enjoy. To me you are saying that racial homogeneity correlates with the potential for efficiency in health care. I'm not seeing your point. You provide statistics that imply a difference in the cultures, which I agree with. But you don't supply any statistics or studies, or even opinions as to why that difference would be an inherent limit on our potential. I mean, it's colder in Sweden, and wetter in the Netherlands. Maybe those are the reasons for greater health care efficiency, but statistics that show those things to be true, don't do anything to prove they are correlated in any way. In fact this is classic post hoc fallacy.

You imply that racial homogeneity is important, but you don't say how. I'm asking for you to be more specific so I don't continue to be lacking a bit of intellect.
~~~- ¥
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby tufluk » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:41 pm

A start might be to realize Sweden and Switzerland are different.

I never said a homogenous population was important for anything. I said that I didn't think a policy that worked in SWITZERLAND or the Netherlands would extrapolate to the US due to differences in demographics. I stand by that.

ex·trap·o·late
/ikˈstrapəˌlāt/
verb
verb: extrapolate; 3rd person present: extrapolates; past tense: extrapolated; past participle: extrapolated; gerund or present participle: extrapolating
1. extend the application of (a method or conclusion, esp. one based on statistics) to an unknown situation by assuming that existing trends will continue or similar methods will be applicable.
"the results cannot be extrapolated to other patient groups"
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby irban » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:59 pm

We have as many demographic similarities with those countries as differences. Who is to say what we can emulate, and what holds us back? I'm still not seeing the reasoning behind your extrapolation.

rea·son·ing/ˈrizənɪŋ, ˈriznɪŋ/ Show Spelled [ree-zuh-ning, reez-ning] Show IPA
noun
1. the act or process of a person who reasons.
2. the process of forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises.
3. the reasons, arguments, proofs, etc., resulting from this process.
~~~- ¥
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby Cydisc » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:42 pm

It could be that we all need to speak Swedish to make it work.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby 10up » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:42 pm

it's the liberal perception on sex.

it has to be..
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby grodney » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:27 am

My wife doesn't know anything about this thread. Over the weekend, I read her the quote that Brian posted:
"
The former president noted that America is first “by a country mile” in the share of gross domestic product we spend on health care, at 17.9 percent. Yet our results are somewhere around 25th — at best — in the world.

...if we could reduce that share to the 12 percent of GDP Switzerland and the Netherlands devote to health care... the difference is a trillion dollars a year.

"

Then I told her one of the first responses started with:
"
If you think the population demographics in Switzerland and the United States are comparable, and policies that work there will work here, you are crazier than I.
"

She stopped me there and said: "Wait, crazy racist, right?".
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